Bonile Ngqiyaza speaks to Shamin Shaik about his feelings on the past and his future plans.

Shamin "Chippy" Shaik's involvement as defence department arms acquisitions head with the arms deal as well as its controversies probably needs no introduction. It has been well documented.

He comes from a large family of six, five brothers and a sister. It is a family with solid struggle credentials, Shaik having been detained twice in the turbulent 1980s. But that all appears to have been overtaken by his central role in negotiating the defence packages, and the controversies that followed.

Following an inquiry, and his resignation last week that caught many by surprise, Bonile Ngqiyaza speaks to the man who has been very much in the eye of the storm that is the arms deal

Please put us through some of the events leading to your involvement in the struggle, and in Umkhonto We Sizwe.

I (have) a Masters in Mechanical Engineering I completed in California (and) just as I had finished registering for a doctorate there the African National Congress (ANC) was unbanned.

I was asked to come back home, and I think those days we anticipated that negotiations and elections would take place within the year like they did in Namibia but it did not happen that way.

When I came back I went to the ANC at Shell House, where I was asked to join what was called (the) logistics work group in MK by Gen (Siphiwe) Nyanda, and someone whom I hold in high esteem, Gen Ismail Abubaker.

Why are you quitting the defence department now?

Why am I leaving? I am registered at Natal University to complete my doctorate in engineering. I have been registered (as a student) there now for four years.

I want some time for myself I want to put my studies behind me. I want to at least make sure that my engineering studies are complete. I think that by finishing my PhD, I will do justice to that part of it.

What do your think of your work with the defence department?

We wrote up a whole new chapter on how to go about buying equipment. So, there's a chapter about acquisitions now.

Do you feel that the criticism from opposition political parties is justified?

A lot of the opposition members were in the group that wrote the acquisition management chapter together with the department, and then approved it in Parliament. I feel a bit slighted by the fact that some of these people who were in the very same group object now to the way we did it.

Did you achieve the goals that you set for yourself in the department?

The goals and ambitions were not really my goals and ambitions. They were the ANC's and MK's goals and vision. We felt that by coming from what we called an armed guerrilla group, we had to basically come into a conventional army, (and) give it structure.

We went in to create a new military, and to ensure that it survives. I think institutions last longer than individuals.

Is this the end of your involvement with the department?

No, I hope that this not the end of my involvement with the defence force I hope that I can (continue) contributing to the defence force.

But what I think I should not be doing and I think it's only appropriate is that I should not enter the defence industry sector.

One inference is that your link to (Deputy President Jacob) Zuma, may have benefited either you, or some members of your family in the defence packages.

OK. The deputy president only became deputy president after the second election. Where was he during the first four or five years? He was minister of tourism he had absolutely nothing to do with the military. That is the time the defence packages were approved in Parliament. He only became deputy president in June/July of 1999. So he had almost nothing to do with the defence packages. It's wrong then to say my family had a crystal ball to see that the tourism minister would one day become deputy president. I never had that.

Do you think your family was targeted in this arms deal issue?

I think my family was targeted largely because we all played a role in one form or another in ANC activities.

Are you bitter about the accusations that have followed you?

Am I bitter? Bottom line politics is a funny game. Politicians have always used certain things for their own benefit.

But it is not appropriate to take issues of national interest like security and defence and use those as a political tool. It's inappropriate for opposition political parties to attack the military like they did.

With acknowledgements to Bonile Ngqiyaza and Business Day.