Publication: Mail and Guardian Issued: Date: 2006-10-12 Reporter: Donwald Pressly

Mbeki, Arms Dealer Meeting 'Not Problematic'

 

Publication 

Mail and Guardian
Date

2006-10-12

Reporter

Donwald Pressly 

Web Link

www.mg.co.za

 

If South African President Thabo Mbeki had met high-ranking executives of a French arms company -- when he was still deputy president -- that would not have been problematic, Public Enterprises Minister Alec Erwin said on Thursday.

In a debate with Independent Democrats (ID) leader Patricia de Lille on the South African arms deal on John Perlman's show on the SAfm radio station, Erwin was asked specifically if Mbeki as deputy president had met high-ranking executives of Thomson CSF "would that have been problematic?"

He answered: "Certainly not, the times we are talking about, if you study the [arms deal] process, it makes the timing irrelevant *1, they [the company] have a wide range of interests *2".

Erwin, who was previously minister of Trade and Industry, said at the time the government was "was not dealing with that level of decision making *3".

Asked why the president was himself not responding to the questions arising about this possible meeting, he said he was "sure the president will address that", but added that he could not find any reference -- to the meeting -- "in any of our records" *4.

Asked repeatedly about whether this meant that Mbeki had never met the arms dealers, Erwin ignored the question *5 and continued to answer another question.

De Lille noted that the Minister in the Presidency Essop Pahad had initially not remembered that the president had met with the arms dealers but had subsequently changed his mind.

Thomson CSF -- now known as Thint -- and its African Defence Systems was part of the German Frigate Consortium which won the corvette contract, led by the German firm Thyssen.

De Lille also said she hoped that the one lesson that could be learnt was that international experience had shown that arms companies raised prices because of "the nuisance of offsets" -- required investments by arms companies to win the contracts. She noted that various governments had been rocked by arms deal scandals including Italy, Germany and Saudi Arabia. "One is dealing with an arms industry ... that are a lot of crooks *6," she charged.

With acknowledgements to Donwald Pressly and Mail & Guardian.

*1       From another encrypted fax dated 28 November 1997 between Thomson-CSF executives in South Africa and France :

"I - This afternoon I met the person responsible for the shortIist, who confirmed the following points for me:
..............
Then, a little later on, he repeated that he had obtained assurance from the Deputy President that we would be awarded the combat system and the sensors."

Seeing that the official acquisition process commenced on 23 September 1997, this is certainly a crucial time period for the chairman of MINCOM to be giving clandestine assurances to bidding sub-contractors for a contracts only to be signed in 23 months time.

The next meeting held between Mbeki and the Chairman of Thomson-CSF, Denis Ranque, (also arranged by means of another encrypted fax) was on 27 June 1998 in Gauteng, South Africa.

The next meeting held between Mbeki and the Vice-Chairman of Thomson-CSF, Jean-Paul Perrier  was on 17 December 1998 In Paris, France.

The next meeting held between Mbeki and Vice-President of Thomson-CSF International, Bernard de Bollardiere was between 9 and 11 February 1999 in South Africa.

Alain Thetard had a follow-up meeting with Essop Pahad on 23 February in the Union Buildings, Pretoria, South Africa.

The corvette contract was signed on 3 December 1999, making the time period for these meetings crucial.


*2      Thomson-CSF certainly have a wide range of interests (including credit card-style driver's licences and ground-based air defence systems), but here they are being quite specific about the combat system and the sensors for Project Sitron, i.e. the acquisition of 4 light frigates for the South African Navy.


*3      The chairman of MINCOM meeting secretly with the Chairman and Vice-Chairmen of Thomson-CSF clearly indicates that the government was dealing with the highest level of decision making.


*4      The above dates might jog Mbeki's and Erwin's memories. All of the dates are available in documentary form that have been acceded to in the High Court as genuine and meaning what they purport to be.


*5      Ewin was his normal evasive, convoluting and well-practised self. On quite a number of his defensive points he was either, at best just ignorant, or at worst plainly lying. Poor Patricia, she just doesn't know the difference.


*6      When one is dealing with the South African Government and the French, German and British Arms dealers  ... then there are a lot more crooks.

Erwin is probably not one of them, that's why he has been made Mbeki's point man when valiantly doing the necessary damage control.