Publication: News24
Issued:
Date: 2008-04-17
Reporter:
Reporter:
Cape Town - The controversial R30bn arms deal was signed in 1999 by
the South African government with companies from Germany, Italy, Sweden,
Britain, France and South Africa. Amongst the firms supplying weapons were Saab,
BAE Systems and Thomson-CSF.
The arms deal has been at the centre of allegations of fraud and corruption at
high levels in the government - something it denies. In recent weeks new calls
have been made for a judicial inquiry into the multi-billion rand deal after
fresh allegations were made in Germany where prosecutors are probing the German
consortium that supplied frigates as part of the deal.
Former ANC member of Parliament,
Andrew
Feinstein, and the former member of Parliament's public accounts watchdog
Scopa, resigned when the party moved to curtail investigations into the arms
deal. Feinstein's gave his "insider" account of the arms deal investigation and
process in a book called After the Party published by
Jonathan
Ball in 2007.
To get some clarity on the current situation around the arms deal and its impact
on the ANC and South Africa, News24 put some questions to Feinstein.
Do you think the arms-deal report by the African National Congress national
executive committee (NEC) will get to the bottom of the matter?
No, I think that enquiry is purely for internal political purposes in
relation to
Jacob Zuma
and Thabo
Mbeki. But at least it is an acknowledgement by the new ANC leadership that
the full story on the arms deal hasn't yet been told, despite the President's
protestations to the contrary.
In your book you ask for a new independent inquiry into the arms deal.
Government and President Mbeki will respond that two inquiries have found no
corruption in the primary arms deal. Why have another inquiry?
There has only been one inquiry, which was severely compromised. As I argue
in the book the investigation was neutered by ensuring the ANC in Parliament
limited the scope of it as far as possible, and didn't question the superficial
nature of it when it was concluded; the one truly independent investigator
(Judge Heath) was excluded from the inquiry; the remaining investigators were
instructed as to what and whom they could and could not investigate; and their
final report was significantly edited on instruction from the Executive to
remove even mild criticism of the cabinet. In addition, they failed to
investigate the main corruption allegations which had been outlined by the
Public Accounts Committee. So the need for a full, unfettered inquiry is
extremely important.
It is being alleged that the ANC directly benefited from the arms deal. If
so, what are the chances that an ANC government will reopen the investigation
into the deal?
I think the chances are slim. However, if the new leadership of the ANC is
serious about a moral regeneration of the party and the country, a good starting
point would be to establish such an investigation.
What are your thoughts around some kind of amnesty around this issue?
I think an amnesty should only be considered with three non-negotiable
conditions:
1. that it is in return for full disclosure, which implies some sort of
investigative process by the body concerned
2. that people who receive amnesty leave public office permanently
3. that any ill-gotten gains are paid back to the fiscus
Do you think Jacob Zuma is being made a scapegoat by some in the ruling party
for the alleged corruption in the arms deal?
I think he was involved in corruption relating to the deal, albeit on a
small scale. Many others were involved far more significantly. And they should
be investigated and prosecuted. But the fact that they haven't yet been, doesn't
minimise Zuma or
Schabir
Shaik's transgressions. All of those who behaved inappropriately should
suffer the consequences of their actions.
Is it not time to put this whole arms deal business behind us and look toward
the future?
Yes, but the only way a country can do that without something similar being
repeated in the future, is to know what happened, deal with those who
transgressed and then move on having sent a clear message that this sort of
corruption and undermining of state institutions is not acceptable in our
democracy. If we move on without addressing this meaningfully, South Africa will
be an open house for corruption and our democracy will be permanently tarnished.
You say in your book that the ANC lost its "moral compass" in 2007. What are
your expectations for the future and specifically the future path of the ruling
party?
I believe that we need to move beyond the last few years of tawdry politics
and to do that I suggest both Thabo Mbeki and Jacob Zuma need to be removed from
the ANC's and the country's political leadership. I believe there is a good
chance of that happening by May of next year, at which point the prospects for
the country will improve dramatically. I see shoots of the traditional,
values-driven ANC emerging from some people in the new leadership. If this is
backed by action I think the chances of the ANC regenerating itself are good and
that would have a very positive impact on the country.
Were you not a bit naïve to expect the Mandela years of "hope and principle"
in politics to continue? Wasn't it inevitable that the South African political
scene would return to the world of real politics once the 1994 honeymoon wore
off?
I think I was, and remain, deeply idealistic. Perhaps that is naive. But it
is only if we strive for what the whole country deserves that we have any
possibility of achieving honest, just and good governance that serves the needs
of all in South Africa, especially the poorest. Given our remarkable transition
and the sacrifices that so many made, we deserve to lead the world on matters of
reconciliation, cosmopolitanism and ethics, as we did for just over four years.
Sadly, we then very quickly conformed to global "politics-as-usual", which are
pretty depressing. If we accept that that is our lot and politics can never be
more high-minded or accountable than they currently are, I think we become
passive recipients of the will of the ruling elite. I believe, rather, in an
active citizenship that demands our leaders serve with integrity and principle
and are accountable to those who elected them.
You seem to still be involved with "fighting" the arms deal from the UK. Can
you tell us a bit more about your latest efforts there?
I continue to interact with the investigation in the UK into the SA deal but
also focus on the broader arms industry and its undermining of accountable
democracy around the world. Most recent developments are that the British HIgh
Court has ruled unlawful Tony Blair's decision in late 2006 to close down the
investigation into the world's largest, and probably most corrupt arms deal,
between the UK and Saudi Arabia worth £48bn and in which bribes of over £1bn
were allegedly paid. Gordon Brown is now attempting to change the law so that it
would be possible for him to close down such investigations "legally".
Will you ever return to politics? Would you ever join an opposition party?
I regard myself as still involved in politics, but as a writer and an
activist rather than a formal politician. I couldn't imagine going back into
formal politics but would be interested in setting up anti-corruption watchdogs
in SA and elsewhere. I also couldn't imagine joining an opposition party as I
had such a strong connection to the ANC which, strangely and despite the
criticism from some quarters within the party, I still feel. Also none of the
current opposition parties offer a compelling agenda for progressive change in
the country.
There is often talk of a "split" in the ANC. Do you think that is likely?
No, I don't. I think if Mbeki had regained the ANC Presidency at Polokwane,
Cosatu and the SACP might have considered splitting. Now they feel they are
being heard again, so are happy within the alliance. I don't see any other
schism that could lead to a split.
What does the future hold for Andrew Feinstein?
I will publish an updated edition of After the Party later in the
year and have recently started working on my next book, on the global arms trade
and how it undermines accountable democracy. I continue to chair an HIV and AIDS
charity in the UK, to co-operate with various arms deal investigations around
the world and to write and broadcast about integrity in government. So, for the
immediate future my focus is very much on writing and activism.
Buy Feinstein's After the Party
at a 20% discount from kalahari.net.
With acknowledgement to News24.