Publication: Cape Argus Issued: Date: 2008-08-10 Reporter: Boyd Webb

'Scorpions Wanted to Quiz Mbeki Over Arms'

 

Publication 

Cape Argus
Date

2008-08-10
Reporter Boyd Webb

Web Link

www.capeargus.co.za

 

Scorpions investigators probing the arms deal asked to meet President Thabo Mbeki after questions surfaced about the president having met foreign arms company executives, suspended prosecutions chief Vusi Pikoli has revealed.

This seemingly flies in the face of Mbeki's denials that he has been approached for information by any agency investigating alleged corruption in the multi-billion-rand deal.

Mbeki suspended Pikoli as head of the National Prosecuting Authority last year and the top justice official's fate now hangs on the findings of the Ginwala Inquiry into whether he is fit to hold office.

Responding to questions from Weekend Argus, Pikoli said former Scorpions boss Leonard McCarthy had asked for an audience with Mbeki but was instead referred to the Presidency's legal adviser, Mojanku Gumbi.

"What I know is that in the past he (McCarthy) did seek an audience with the president and he referred us to ... Mojanku Gumbi. And members of the DSO have had discussions with her," Pikoli said.

Pikoli added that the Scorpions' inquiries were about "trying to find out about the meetings the president was said to have had with either the German or French bidders".

Senior Scorpions sources said at the time McCarthy sought the meeting with Mbeki he was following up on information relating to claims of corruption in the corvette deal.

Since 2005, Mbeki has been quizzed by opposition MPs as to whether as deputy president he met representatives of Thomson CSF, now known as Thales, whose South African subsidiary Thint faces charges of corruption with ANC president Jacob Zuma.

This question arises from company faxes which suggest a person called "the tailor" said Mbeki was very satisfied with the company's bid for a combat system and with sensors for corvettes. Another fax mentioned a meeting with Mbeki in December 1998 *1.

Mbeki has repeatedly said he can't recall such a meeting and has never attended a "secret meeting" *2 with any company.

Over the past two years, Mbeki has been put under further pressure for information by opposition MPs after German authorities started probing claims of multi-million kickbacks relating to the corvette sale. This investigation was iced earlier this year.

This weekend Pikoli was not certain precisely when McCarthy - now working for the World Bank - had approached the presidency, but said it was probably 2006.

Pikoli said in response to McCarthy's request Mbeki had said the Scorpions could meet Gumbi and if there was a need for him to meet them that would be determined by discussions with Gumbi.

Pikoli said Mbeki had said he should ask Mojanku when and where meetings would be held. Pikoli was not sure whether these were with "the Germans or French", but "meetings were then held with members of the DSO". He had no details of these meetings.

Last week, in response to a DA question about the alleged French meeting, Mbeki said his office had investigated the matter thoroughly. Such a meeting had been requested but it could not be confirmed that it took place. If it had, it would have been a routine, insignificant courtesy meeting *3.

The NPA has previously refused to say whether the Scorpions had questioned Mbeki about the arms deal and presidential spokesman Mukoni Ratshitanga has said he was not aware of a Scorpions request for the president's assistance.

Last week in a written reply to a parliamentary question, Mbeki said he had not been approached by a local or foreign investigating agency to advise, assist or testify in relation to arms deal probes.

This weekend, Gumbi referred questions to Ratshitanga, who said: "Advocate Gumbi does not discuss her work in public."

Intelligence spokeswoman Lorna Daniels refused to say whether the National Intelligence Agency had probed allegations of corruption in the arms deal but pointed out that if it had been requested to do such an investigation this would be within its mandate, since it involved corruption.

With acknowledgements to Boyd Webb and Cape Argus.


*1*2    Another French memorandum dated 1998-11-27, refers to a private meeting with Mbeki held 6 months prior. This is what it said, inter alia :
"THINT already privately had access, 6 months ago, to your President T. Mbeki and at that time handed him the name of a partner (the company C.N.I.) to play the "black empowerment" role in ADS and to thus be our political guarantee; this company has since declined the offer; we are currently trying to give this role to one of the member companies of the local consortium, FBS, which seems to have received the backing of the ANC.
Besides a contact whom we consider authorised by Mr. T. Mbeki recently informed Mr. J.P. Perrier in RSA that :
- ADS "had met the requirements" with regard to Black empowerment
 
- We could receive a clear message from the President on this subject on his trip to Paris."
 
"Secret meeting", "privately had access"

Anyone wish to argue the toss?

The date of the secret meeting ?
Saturday 27 June 1998
 
The time of the secret meeting ?
Sometime after 11:45 CAT.
 
The venue of the secret meeting ?
Not exactly sure, but definitely in Pretoria.

 
Possibly the Holiday Inn Crown Plaza, corner of Church and Beatrix Streets, Acardia.
 
The participants in this secret meeting ?
T.M. Mbeki, J-P. Perrier, C. de Peyron and A.P. Thetard, inter alia.
 
*3      Attached to the memorandum is the reason for the request by Thomson-CSF for a another meeting with Mbeki to be held in Paris just 3 weeks. This is a set of very direct quest regarding the corvette combat suite.

It goes precisely like this :
"Questions to be put to Mr. T. Mbeki

 
1. Is ADS still, as was announced some time ago by the South African Navy, "the nominated combat suit supplier"?
2. We have integrated the Nkobi Group into our capital at the level of the Thomson-CSF holding:
- Is this still a good choice? And if yes,
- Is it sufficient to comply with the Black empowerment requirements? If not,
3. Is the company F.B.S, which we are currently integrating into the ADS capital, headed by general (E.R.) Moloi (sic), a good partner? If not, who can tell us to whom should we direct our research and based on what criteria?
4. Is it possible that RSA sees THCSF and its South African partner ADS as top potential suppliers, in particular for corvette and submarine combat systems? This would constitute proof of recognition for the efforts undertaken by our Group and would considerably facilitate its discussions with all the European manufacturers who otherwise would tend to favour domestic equipment suppliers."
If this is a routine, insignificant courtesy meeting then my proverbial is a a proverbial brinjal.

Mbeki must be charged right now for inter alia :


He should also be impeached as president for lying to Parliament in both written and verbal official responses to questions from Members of Parliament.

He should also be impeached as president for lying to the entire country that the reason that he gave for the Heath Special Investigating Unit (SIU) not being given a presidential proclamation to investigate the Arms Deal was that Advocate Frank Kahn SC and Advocate Jannie Lubbe SC had recommended this.

At the same time Alec Erwin should also be impeached as minister for lying to the entire country that the reason that Mbeki gave for the Heath Special Investigating Unit (SIU) not being given a presidential proclamation to investigate the Arms Deal was that a Constitutional Court judgment precluded this.

Mbeki and Erwin are two of the biggest liars that this country has even known.

They lie often, they lie big.

Erwin, especially lies in the face of known and conflicting information.

Erwin more often than not lies on behalf of Mbeki.

Otherwise he would no doubt be out of a job.